Writing What’s Real: Paul Cwalina on Authentic Storytelling

In this episode of Made to Make, host Shannon Grissom sits down with author Paul Cwalina to explore the winding path that led him from a successful business career to becoming a published novelist. Drawing on a lifetime of experiences, Paul shares how his upbringing, strong work ethic, and deep understanding of human nature have shaped his approach to storytelling.

The conversation dives into Paul's organic writing process, where characters often take the lead and stories unfold in unexpected ways. He discusses the themes that consistently emerge in his work—including imperfection, forgiveness, redemption, and the complex balance between darkness and hope. Whether writing Christian fiction or psychological thrillers, Paul strives to create authentic stories that reflect the emotional realities of life.

Paul also offers practical advice for aspiring writers, emphasizing discipline, perseverance, and the importance of trusting your creative instincts. This thoughtful conversation is a powerful reminder that it's never too late to pursue a creative calling and that the most compelling stories often grow from the experiences that shape us.

Transcript

Shannon Grissom (00:00)
Welcome to Made to Make. Here we talk about creativity, the challenges that come with it, and why we keep showing up anyway. Because hey, we are all made to make.

Welcome to the We Are Made to Make podcast. I'm your host Shannon Grissom. Today, we're talking with author Paul Cwalina, who spent years in the business world before finally answering a lifelong call to writing. You know, what began as a nudge from an old elementary school friend led to four novels and a creative journey that proves it's never too late to become the creative you are meant to be. Welcome, Paul.

Paul Cwalina (00:45)
Thank you so much, Shannon. Great to be here.

Shannon Grissom (00:47)
You know, I was thinking about you know, you grew up in northeastern Pennsylvania and are a grandson of immigrants. How did that ha or has that shaped your writing?

Paul Cwalina (01:02)
I think the th the first thing or the main thing that people would notice about a visitor to the area or somebody who moved here would be the work ethic of the people. very strong work ethic here and we had our parents and grandparents as role models. As I said, my grandpa, both my grandfathers, worked in the coal mines. Coal mining was a huge industry a hundred years ago.

in this area. So I mean, you have towns called Coaldale and you know Carbondale, and a lot of things revolved around the mines. So that's what you see, or a visitor would see. As far as shaping my writing it I guess it in two ways. I think the work ethic has made me finish where I started.

So you commit to something and you do it. So that is what runs in the blood here in the DNA. Also, it shapes the characters that I have. You know, I'm not talking, or I'm not writing about rich kids on a yacht. I'm talking about your normal everyday characters.

Shannon Grissom (02:18)
Was you know, growing up with that, did you grow up with creative people or was there a specific moment when you knew that you wanted to write?

Paul Cwalina (02:29)
Well, I've always had the gift of writing from early on. right through, you know, even in elementary school, middle school. Actually, from middle school right through college. Like every time I was in an English class and there was a writing assignment, the teacher or professor would always use my work as an example and read it to the class. So which made me, you know, very popular with my fellow students, I'm sure. but

So that it's always been there, so I've never taken credit for it. That is something that God wrote into my DNA. So that's just a gift. And I can't take credit for it.

Shannon Grissom (03:08)
Well, you know, I was thinking about it, so you started off young and then probably life happened. What happened to shift you into writing to actually take it up and start this journey of the books that you've written?

Paul Cwalina (03:27)
It actually started with a conversation. I reconnected with an old friend from elementary school on Facebook, and just by chance, I got to talking to her, and I just noticed that she had written three novels, three Christian fiction novels. And I thought, Wow, that is pretty wild. and they're published books and everything. So, you know, I talked to her about it a little bit and

And then after the conversation, it was like, you know, we grew up in the same hometown. We went to the same elementary school. I mean, we diverged after that, but I thought, why can't I write a novel? I've always written essays and short stories, and I thought that's my limit. I can't really commit to writing a novel. But that's what really sparked it. You know, my dad told me like early on, like when I was in high school, he said, " You should be a writer.

And I thought, what do fathers know? You can't make money, you know, writing. So I went off into the business world. But as I said, it was always a hobby. It was always a hobby. And as I said, after that conversation with my friend, that's what started. That's why I said I wanna write a book.

Shannon Grissom (04:52)
So are you a plotter or a panster or somewhere in between?

Paul Cwalina (04:58)
In between. In between. Mostly, I think I would say three of my four novels. I knew the beginning, and I knew the end. The process was just weaving those two together. So I will outline, and then just kind of well that outline can change a little bit. So, a little bit of both.

Shannon Grissom (05:26)
Well, you know, I've noticed that, when you talk about fleshing out a story, you've often admitted that you don't write comfortable stories. I've found them to be authentic, though. So I would like to know, was that a conscious decision to wake people up or

Paul Cwalina (05:47)
I try to keep my my I try to keep my writing as organic as possible. I really I really do feel like it's it's something moving through me. I remember in an interview a long time ago, the guitar player from U2 when they were promoting the Joshua Tree. So that's almost forty years ago. And he said it

generally feels like we're not writing this. Something is moving through us. Yes. To write our music. And that's how I always felt. And that's why I never just sit down to my you know, a computer and start writing. It's always something, and this story, the Dropping Stones story, the first one, was just something that was just nagging me. It's like almost daily, you have to write this, you have to write this, you have to write this.

And I don't think my mind would ever be settled, you know, if I had chosen not to write it. So that was the inspiration, really, for writing the story. As far as comfortable stories, I just find when I'm reading books or watching movies, and halfway through, I know where it's gonna go. Yeah. You know, you n you can almost e guess exactly what the conversations are gonna be and what the the plot's gonna be. I just find that

uninspiring. So I always like to plus it's not you know, life isn't neat like that. Life isn't perfect. Life isn't all happy endings. So

And I think I read a lot of Hemingway. Hemingway's probably my favorite writer. And he's far from comfortable stories. So that's, but it's probably an influence there. Farewell to Arms is probably my favorite novel. So, that does not, you know, spoil anything, but it doesn't end well.

Shannon Grissom (07:42)
No. So you you you've managed to write and work. What does your you know, it's n not like everybody has the luxury to create all day long. You've managed to work it in a very busy life with lots of other interests. What does your writing process look like?

Paul Cwalina (08:04)
Well, right now it's very limited because since two thousand eighteen I've only owned a business, and that is just sixty hours a week, and some of it involves some physical labor, so I am exhausted at the end of the day, and it's very hard to sit down at a computer. so and be and just be you know mentally

with it to to write. So I've had to, you know, just find a couple hours in the week just to continue a story that I that I've had. I'm my current project is it's some short stories, but I haven't had like a full day writing since well it's it's almost eight years.

Shannon Grissom (08:50)
Yeah, I understand that mine's mine's been I haven't either. And so you just work with what you have and and I feel like as long as you keep the flow going. Yeah. And actu and actually if I don't do something creative, I'm I'm not real good to be around. So this kind of my husband will say, Ma maybe you need to paint.

Paul Cwalina (09:14)
Yeah, I know that too. Yeah, yeah. I know that I know that very well. Yeah, John Mellencamp is a is a painter. And you know, he said if you're a creative person, you know, you have to create every day. Yeah. He said if he doesn't create something, whether it's writing a song or painting, he feels like he's wasted a day. Yeah. So, I understand that completely.

Shannon Grissom (09:40)
I've gotta admit to the audience that Paula and I collaborated on a song many years ago. A good time doing that. So I'm thinking about you've your stories, does do they do they start with a character, do they start with a scenario? How does that work for you?

Paul Cwalina (10:07)
Well, let's see, the Dropping Stones first book, it was just a scenario really. And you know the story is semi-autobiographical. So there I so the story is is playing out in my mind a little bit. And I don't know where it's going, I don't but I like I said I knew the beginning, I knew the end, and you know, getting there was was the you know, was the work, was the challenge.

as far as I again I try I I try to keep it organic and like the Well of Depravity, my fourth novel, that just like just came out of nowhere and I had no idea why this was coming to me. And so I had so I had the first couple chapters and then I'm waiting for the rest. I'm waiting to be guided, like where's this story going? And I went dry.

And I just I set it aside for a summer. I thought, okay, well maybe I misread this, maybe I'm not supposed to write this. maybe I got this wrong. And then I went I went back to it in the fall of that year and just started writing and all of a sudden it just came to me. I said, that's what this story's about. Okay. Now I know where I'm going. But even that, e even as writing as you're writing it,

you know, the characters will surprise you, even though you're you're controlling them like wait wait, why why why would she say that? And then it just leads to something else and you you never know where the story's gonna take you.

Shannon Grissom (11:47)
Well, I was thinking you know, like I started writing something several years ago and it's just sat on the shelf, but it's bugging me, right? It's it's it's like a l now it's becoming a little yappy dog before it was just a thing. So I'm wondering if sometimes, and let me know how you feel about this or think about this, if sometimes more life experience has to happen before you can take it, before you can finish it.

Paul Cwalina (12:17)
Absolutely. That could be the thing. The other thing is a at some point, it's just a matter of putting a sentence down. That's how many ways said, write one like write one true sentence. The truest sentence you know is write that. It'll f oftentimes it'll just flow from there. So it is some there is some practicality to it.

Shannon Grissom (12:41)
Yeah,

I think I was I think I was supposed to hear that today.

Paul Cwalina (12:47)
You can do it then. Trust me if I can do it anybody can.

Shannon Grissom (12:52)
So your stories are they really go deep into people's emotions. Now was that an organic thing or was that also a conscious decision?

Paul Cwalina (13:06)
Yeah, I think that comes from my Hemingway influence, because he always wrote in the first person. And I really enjoy wor working in the first person, writing in the first person. It does limit your surrounding characters, they become a little less deep because you're not in their minds, but it gives you complete depth on your main character.

And the compliments that I get, yeah, are, you know, it was great to be in the mind of this person and really feeling what he felt and thinking what he thought. So again, there's a trade-off. So if you're writing in the omniscient and you know everyone's character, everyone's motivations, and everything, that's one thing. But if you're writing in first person, you're really doing a deep dive on the main character.

Shannon Grissom (13:59)
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Paul Cwalina (14:57)
I think the theme is the I I guess the only theme really is we are imperfect people. There is not gonna be and we lead imperfect lives. And there's the Dropping Stones series is really centered around forgiveness. so you're you're accepting people as they are. You accept their their their flaws. And also I hope people realize that from from you know, reading my stories

that. we have no idea what's going on behind the eyes of anybody we meet.

especially true with with the Well of Depravity, with Evan, the main the main character. on the surface he is very w you know put together, but he's got some awful procli procliviti hanging out in his mind, yeah, that he keeps secret.

Shannon Grissom (15:57)
Well you've you've been able to span different genres. was that it was that conscious, or it almost seems like, you know, you're just given the stories, or you're given the inspiration, and then you go with it. Is that more like how it happens with you?

Paul Cwalina (16:17)
Correct, yeah. With Dropping Stones and with the well of depravity. The Well, like I said, the Well of Depravity was like, where is this coming from? 'Cause this is completely different from the Dropping Stones series. this is just out of my genre. This is something I like why am I writing this? Where is this coming from?

So I didn't set out to write a psychological thriller or whatever you call it. That's just the way, that's what happened. So, so I don't really set out to write a genre. I have a story in whatever people want to call it this or call it that, I couldn't care less. But this is this this is the story.

Shannon Grissom (17:01)
That's great. You just let it lead you. I was thinking of how you have both darkness and hope, and how you do that in your stories, how do you balance that?

Paul Cwalina (17:06)
Exactly. Exactly.

Well, I I I'm not sure if I consciously balance it. It's just that that's life. You know, there are there are dark times in your life, there are hopeful times in your life, there are dark people in your life, there are hopeful people in your life. and you know, you a lot of times you just gotta get out of your own way and see the hope, see the light. You know? And and I guess my books are are are

more along the lines of consequences if you don't.

Shannon Grissom (17:49)
Mm. Yeah. And even the song you wrote, same thing, just words. So

Paul Cwalina (17:58)
I

thank you so much for for collaborating with me on that. It was it was

Shannon Grissom (18:01)
it was great. It was great. So what conversations do you w do you hope that your readers have after finishing one of your books?

Paul Cwalina (18:12)
well about the characters. My books are mainly d character driven. you're not gonna see a lot of explosions or car accidents or car chases in my in my work. it's only it it's it's mostly about the human experience. So conversations are where this character w went wrong, where he could have done better, his choices you know throughout, you know, the main character

Or, you know, the ancillary character, the characters around him. What could they have done? Or what what did they bring to the table? But really it's about the human experience. How can I be a better person?

Shannon Grissom (18:51)
So you've you've written Christian fiction without limiting yourself to a particular genre, but how how do you weave that into your work?

Paul Cwalina (19:04)
yeah, one of my one of my readers mentioned that I don't write overtly Christian. Right. I'm not trying to convert anybody. I'm not you know, that's not the the goal of any of my work. I've always believed in being the example. Like

Like in Matthew it says, you know, be this the salt of the earth, be the light. So I try to be the light, I try to be the salt, and this is you know this is the example. and she said that was very much like C. S. Lewis. You know, he wrote with a Christian worldview, but not outwardly to convert people. Yeah. So I think that's how they intersect for me.

Shannon Grissom (19:50)
So what if i what has writing if what if anything, what has writing taught you about yourself?

Paul Cwalina (19:59)
I th I that I could finally do it, that I had the discipline to do it. Really. I mean honestly when when I set out to write it, all I wanted to do was get a book onto Amazon so people can order a Hemingway book and my book at the same time and I was happy as could be. Well, you know, when when I finally hit that submit button,

But actually was also as full of myself and arrogant as it could be 'cause I I did it, I wrote it and you know, d I didn't get it edited. I just like, I know what I'm doing. I know punctuation. I know what I'm doing. So I just, you know, I published it. And so after the first few, you know, reviews like, you know, you have an incomplete sentence in the second chapter and I go So I re I redid it and then I finally got an editor to to do it over. But

I was just happy. I I and that I had a book on Amazon, honestly. That's that that was that was the goal for me and I was happy. But then, you know, the reviews and the people were talking about it, like, Wow. like I had a phone call from someone, a man, practically in tears. As he's you know, told me about the book, he said, That's me. I'm I'm that main character. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, so so that was that was very moving. So that that was like, Okay, job well done. You did it. But now okay, well maybe I can write another one. Where do I take this character? Yeah. Wha what else can happen to this character that I can create a story and that's how Kingmaker came about and then again, like, where's your third book? Okay, well

Shannon Grissom (21:48)
Yeah, it's always about I always get questions about what's next? What are you gonna do, you know. So yeah, like mm I'm still getting my equilibrium from the first one. So do you ever get stuck or discouraged?

Paul Cwalina (21:58)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Discouraged, no. Stuck, yes. Yeah. And and I think that's that's every writer, you know, the you come to a a point where hm and I never try to force anything. If I'm stuck, I'm not gonna sit there for an hour and try to get unstuck. I I'll just I'm stuck, I'm done. For the day or whatever, or take a walk or listen to some music or find some other inspiration. 'Cause I th I feel like if you if you just get it out of your mind and come back to it.

Some something snaps, something will ignite me. okay. I know what I can do now. But I don't try to force it. Never.

Shannon Grissom (22:46)
Yeah, it's like when you're doing something else, maybe even doing the dishes or something, all of a sudden it's like, now I know what to do.

Paul Cwalina (22:52)
And I use my my my notepad on my phone a lot 'cause well, I'll be at work or or just doing something else and I'd be Yeah, that's a great line. I gotta put that in my phone and then I'll come back to it.

Shannon Grissom (23:08)
Do you do you think creativity is something people are born with or something they grow into?

Paul Cwalina (23:18)
personally I feel like I was born with it. like I said before, I think this was written into my DNA from from the get go. So that was a gift and I I feel terrible that I waited so long, you know, to use that gift. now what you what I you know, what I think a writer could take credit for is refining it and being a better writer. But I think the gift itself I think I think you're born with.

Shannon Grissom (23:47)
Yeah. Well, you know, I was a a late bloomer as well and I didn't I think I was in my I I I painted a little bit, but nothing official, you know, when I was a kid. I did music early on and I thought I was gonna be a rock star. I didn't know.

Paul Cwalina (24:04)
I

When I went in there, I wrote songs, and I used to have a drum machine, a guitar, a bass, a keyboard, and boy, it was terrible. So that I could the faith in the universe or God, whatever was very kind to me in shutting that down real quick.

Shannon Grissom (24:16)
Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah, I called some of those shifts a course correction from God. You know, I'm going off on the Rhine track and boom. So what are you currently working on? You st you said you'd started a collection of short stories? Are they gonna be published together or

Paul Cwalina (24:32)
Exactly. Exactly.

Yes, yeah. I've been hoping to put five of them together. I have two of them done, not edited, but I I think they're done and I'm working on the other three. Again, each one of them is, you know, just th there's a theme to all of them, so I think my theme was conscious, but the stories themselves are fairly organic that are coming to me. I think two of them could actually be novels, but

I'd I'd I'd rather just keep them short stories. So like I said, I have a surgery coming up, so I'm gonna be off work for a few weeks. so you know hopefully I can I can use that time well.

Shannon Grissom (25:28)
Yeah, I was just thinking sometimes it's in the recovery and taking you out of your whole normal situation that other things come. So if there's somebody that's that's just really afraid to even start, just they they they wanna do it but they're just afraid. What would you say to them to get going?

Paul Cwalina (25:53)
Well, two things. I would say there's a reason why that story is there. There's a reason why you're thinking about it. There's a reason why you want to do it. And it's because it needs to be done. It needs to be written. and the second thing I would say is like w what I said before, you know, just write a sentence. Yeah. When the hardest thing in the every day in the morning I get up at four AM every morning.

The hardest thing is just to get that start. Just to the first leg out of bed and onto the floor. You know, like, it's so nice just to lay here. You know? No, I gotta go. So you gotta put that first foot on the floor. So write that first sentence. Just do it. There's there's not there's no substitute, there's no magic that's gonna happen here. Yeah. You know. You gotta take your fingers and put them on the keys and create something.

Shannon Grissom (26:45)
Yeah, the muses gotta find you working. Yep. Yeah, it's interesting. I get up at three, four in the morning too, and so I I my creativity is the first thing I do because otherwise, and that started from when I had a full-time day job and then I kept that because if I don't do it first thing, life I allow life to get in the way. So this makes me do it.

Paul Cwalina (27:11)
also for me, I my mind is best in the morning. Yeah, me too. Like up up till noon, I I'm I'm golden. After that, you know, I don't think I'm at my best.

Shannon Grissom (27:21)
We're at this we have the same schedule. I I I don't do too much that requires a lot of thought afternoon and forget I used to shoot my television show at five o'clock in the evening. That was torture. It's really hard. So where can people find out more about you?

Paul Cwalina (27:33)
I bet yeah.

I I sell my books just exclusively on Amazon. Okay, so if you see them anywhere else, it's a phishing scam and you're gonna get you know, you're in for trouble. So that so I kept it exclusive to to Amazon. as I mean as far as social, I'm on X at PKC 1963 I have an author page on Facebook and

I do I do have a blog that I haven't contributed to in a while, but that is Thoughts That Escape Me dot com.

Shannon Grissom (28:16)
Well thank you. You've been incredibly inspiring and I'm going to start writing.

Paul Cwalina (28:23)
Good. Shannon,

you are a bright light in this world and I'm so blessed to know you.

Shannon Grissom (28:28)
Thank

you. Thank you. I feel blessed to know you too. Well, guys, that's a wrap. Thank you for joining us for another episode of We Are Made to Make. Please be sure to like, subscribe, and share so that we can make more episodes. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.